After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

General discussion about YoWorld. NOW INCLUDING feedback and suggestions!

Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Amaya (139390344) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:26 pm

Mrs Mario (104376062) wrote:They wont do themes for one day events and to be fair if they do create a theme then other people will complain about there one day holidays like mothers day fathers day and much more. BVG dose not have time to create all events that happen all year round and do normal themes with it!


It is not a one day event. Pride MONTH is...well...a whole month. Don't try to say they don't have the time to do a full pride theme when they churn out slightly different variations on the same themes repeatedly. :shh:

Erwyle (187240896) wrote:I remember the days when the penalty for homosexuality was a mental institution, prison or graveyard. Thankfully, that is a thing of the past. And in an effort by the gay community to be treated the same as everyone else, many states allow gay marriage and have laws against discrimination. Good progress there too.

So, the trouble I see, and I've said this before, is the desire to be treated like everyone else, in other words, not calling out gay or straight, just people, or to be treated with some special recognition? I don't recall any themes for African Americans, Jewish people, top of my head, so why gay?

I don't want to argue, I'm asking why the persistence if the desire is to be like everyone else? Puzzled...
:eh:


*Wonders how I have this whole collection of Hanukkah decor.* :?:
Last edited by Amaya (139390344) on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby LindyLou Who (126352247) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:28 pm

I just wish some people would learn to keep their opinions and help to themselves .If it's needed I'm sure they will ask for them. :nerd:
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Starjack (126579776) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:30 pm

Leeum (130695460) wrote:
LUSTFUL NIGHTMARE (177682964) wrote:Imo if ur not lgbt+ then don’t speak on the issue :thumbsup:


:thumbsup:

I’m not trying to silence anyone, but ultimately if you are not LGBTQIA+ then you’re not going to fully understand our concerns/issues/wants — unless you’ve done a lot of research, which I doubt is the case for a lot of people.

I think BVG could benefit from maybe asking some openly LGBTQIA+ people on the forums what they believe would be the right thing to do.

I think part of what has driven the issue from the beginning is the exclusion of some voices from the conversation. "Inclusion" doesn't just mean one group participating with another when it's convenient for either party. To me it means both groups interacting seamlessly with respect - and that includes disagreement. It's not enough to simply say agree or be silenced. That's what brought on the culture the LBGTQ community suffered through for way too long. The changes have come because people have worked hard together to make them what they are.

I do however love the idea of BVG asking the actual members of the community what they'd enjoy seeing. There's nothing wrong with being direct!

:thumbsup:
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Starjack (126579776) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:31 pm

LindyLou Who (126352247) wrote:I just wish some people would learn to keep their opinions and help to themselves .If it's needed I'm sure they will ask for them. :nerd:

You must be thinking of private forums? :thumbsup:
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Stardust (186190305) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:32 pm

Spanky (126579776) wrote:
Viking Sam wrote:Hey YoFans,

As a heads up, this feedback has sparked and inspired a frankly overdue conversation on how we approach inclusivity in our games. We look forward to better serving our LGBTQ+ player community, and hope that you continue to give us the feedback that will help us make the best decisions we can.

I did a diversity/inclusivity audit at my company - race, gender, age, etc - all protected categories. The biggest risks around it are defining what "exclusivity" and "inclusivity" mean, determining how to move those who feel excluded into the included definition, and then taking steps to ensure that the actions of the company and all employees line up with inclusivity.

Exclusion is tough. How do we make someone who feels excluded not feel excluded? Is that feeling driven off actions or inactions by our company? Do we need to overtly make an effort to force inclusion, or does that action result in discrimination against other people? How do we organically grow inclusion? Should we expect 100% of our team to feel included? Do we have a management issue? Is training helpful, or does it foster further feelings of exclusion?

It's tough to make Yo feel specifically welcoming to any class or group without making others feel excluded. But spreading the arms wide for "everyone" can sound like a cop out when we all know there are problems. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't discussion.

If you guys decide to start celebrating specific diversity (which I think is probably best for this game), you need to make sure you don't skip groups. Because the "why not me" threads will come fast and furious. So that means Black History Month, Pride, Cancer Awareness, Women's History Month, Asian Awareness Month, and just about anything someone can bring up, will all need their place in the Yo sun. If it's a group that feels excluded, then the effort has to be made. This is a big decision that has to be embraced entirely. And the odds are you still won't and can't cover all possible groups. For example, all the religions would qualify, but would most likely need to be avoided. So be prepared with a response for any group that gets silenced and know they will have the same complaint - exclusion.

It's a slippery slope to be sure. My company has made some smaller changes, and bigger ones are coming. So we'll see. I'm glad to see it being discussed.

:thumbsup:


"Asian Awareness Month"? I think you meant Asian Heritage Awareness Month, or Asian American Awareness Month, or Asian Pacific Heritage Awareness Month. I don't think there is "Asian Awareness Month"? We Asians in Asia don't need any Awareness Month :D
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Erwyle (187240896) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:32 pm

pat DRM (7555269) wrote:
Erwyle (187240896) wrote:I remember the days when the penalty for homosexuality was a mental institution, prison or graveyard. Thankfully, that is a thing of the past. And in an effort by the gay community to be treated the same as everyone else, many states allow gay marriage and have laws against discrimination. Good progress there too.

So, the trouble I see, and I've said this before, is the desire to be treated like everyone else, in other words, not calling out gay or straight, just people, or to be treated with some special recognition? I don't recall any themes for African Americans, Jewish people, top of my head, so why gay?

I don't want to argue, I'm asking why the persistence if the desire is to be like everyone else? Puzzled...
:eh:


There has most certainly been African inspired themes and Jewish items in the game if you care to do some research :thumbsup:

OP is not asking to be treated any better than other players, which is what I assume you mean by your question, she is simply asking for a LGBTQ theme during Pride Month which seems more than acceptable. There doesn't seem to be confusion when players start to ask for Christmas items during December, right? :haha: :haha:



It may not have been your intention, but the tone that your message is giving off is that LGBTQ players should be happy with the bare minimum they have in-game because they have already reached some milestones (your examples, gay marriage and not being murdered). Not sure if this is what you were going for.


So, I maintain there have been no themes as I described. Certain items, yes, but no themes. I simply asked the question does HE want to be treated like everyone else or specially. I'm thinking from your response, we are going for specially.

Fine, but don't assume anthing further because I hadn't received my answer. Now I have. So, now that we know we need a special theme for all gay people, what should that be? I've also asked this question before without any sort of answer. Is it a parade or rainbows? Should we focus on San Francisco? What about Stonewall, the White Night Riots, the AIDS Crisis? Do we do pastels, and if so would patterns and prints be ok or strictly solids?

I don't think there's any actual difference between people except by how others perceive them. The only actual difference between gay and straight is whether the person you love is of the same sex as you or not. Really doesn''t strike me as a reason to get all busy with a special theme. But that's just me. There are others whose opinions matter too.

So, whatever BVG decides, I'll be fine with is what I'm saying. Have a great day!
:hug:
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby RiveR SonG (179243943) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:37 pm

As far as I'm concerned Pride Month has nothing to do with wanting to 'stand out 'wanting to be seen as different 'wanting validation' or wanting to be treated better than anyone else.
It's about the continued efforts of the LGBTQ Community to raise awareness that as a society we haven't arrived yet, while things are changing thanks to the tireless efforts of the LGBTQ community we still have a long way to go. Just because a country brings into law equal rights for gay people, doesn't mean homophobia is eradicated. Gay people are still targeted, still abused, still murdered, and still struggle to be accepted for who they are as people and not singled out because of their sexual orientation.
While I'd love to see a Pride theme, I can understand why BVG doesn't want to take advantage of people's struggles for financial gain.
Happy Pride Month
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Amaya (139390344) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:39 pm

Erwyle (187240896) wrote:
pat DRM (7555269) wrote:
Erwyle (187240896) wrote:I remember the days when the penalty for homosexuality was a mental institution, prison or graveyard. Thankfully, that is a thing of the past. And in an effort by the gay community to be treated the same as everyone else, many states allow gay marriage and have laws against discrimination. Good progress there too.

So, the trouble I see, and I've said this before, is the desire to be treated like everyone else, in other words, not calling out gay or straight, just people, or to be treated with some special recognition? I don't recall any themes for African Americans, Jewish people, top of my head, so why gay?

I don't want to argue, I'm asking why the persistence if the desire is to be like everyone else? Puzzled...
:eh:


There has most certainly been African inspired themes and Jewish items in the game if you care to do some research :thumbsup:

OP is not asking to be treated any better than other players, which is what I assume you mean by your question, she is simply asking for a LGBTQ theme during Pride Month which seems more than acceptable. There doesn't seem to be confusion when players start to ask for Christmas items during December, right? :haha: :haha:



It may not have been your intention, but the tone that your message is giving off is that LGBTQ players should be happy with the bare minimum they have in-game because they have already reached some milestones (your examples, gay marriage and not being murdered). Not sure if this is what you were going for.


So, I maintain there have been no themes as I described. Certain items, yes, but no themes. I simply asked the question does HE want to be treated like everyone else or specially. I'm thinking from your response, we are going for specially.

Fine, but don't assume anthing further because I hadn't received my answer. Now I have. So, now that we know we need a special theme for all gay people, what should that be? I've also asked this question before without any sort of answer. Is it a parade or rainbows? Should we focus on San Francisco? What about Stonewall, the White Night Riots, the AIDS Crisis? Do we do pastels, and if so would patterns and prints be ok or strictly solids?

I don't think there's any actual difference between people except by how others perceive them. The only actual difference between gay and straight is whether the person you love is of the same sex as you or not. Really doesn''t strike me as a reason to get all busy with a special theme. But that's just me. There are others whose opinions matter too.

So, whatever BVG decides, I'll be fine with is what I'm saying. Have a great day!
:hug:

You most certainly have gotten your answer. You might not like the response because it corrected your statement, but you definitely got it.
Say you don't want to argue then start an argument? :haha:
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby LindyLou Who (126352247) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:40 pm

Spanky (126579776) wrote:
LindyLou Who (126352247) wrote:I just wish some people would learn to keep their opinions and help to themselves .If it's needed I'm sure they will ask for them. :nerd:

You must be thinking of private forums? :thumbsup:



No I'm thinking of public forums where people respect each others opinions without trying to push their beliefs and thoughts and help on others when it's not asked for
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Cali (114634836) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:43 pm

Leeum (130695460) wrote:
LUSTFUL NIGHTMARE (177682964) wrote:Imo if ur not lgbt+ then don’t speak on the issue :thumbsup:


:thumbsup:

I’m not trying to silence anyone, but ultimately if you are not LGBTQIA+ then you’re not going to fully understand our concerns/issues/wants — unless you’ve done a lot of research, which I doubt is the case for a lot of people.

I think BVG could benefit from maybe asking some openly LGBTQIA+ people on the forums what they believe would be the right thing to do.


Hi Leeum, :)

My first comment on this post was exactly the same that BVG should take a survey and ask the opinion of the LGBTQ+ community members about what should be included in a Pride Theme, But the feedback that I got was that my wording is "offensive" which was not my intention at all!
So I came back and apologized to Dexter... why? Because I didn't think a mere innocent suggestion could be interperted as offensive!

I think most non-LGBTQ+ players commenting here just trying to be helpful and add their voices to the cause and to encourage BVG to come up with a Pride theme, not the other way around!

Have a lovely day. :hug:
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Stardust (186190305) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:46 pm

RiveR SonG (179243943) wrote:As far as I'm concerned Pride Month has nothing to do with wanting to 'stand out 'wanting to be seen as different 'wanting validation' or wanting to be treated better than anyone else.
It's about the continued efforts of the LGBTQ Community to raise awareness that as a society we haven't arrived yet, while things are changing thanks to the tireless efforts of the LGBTQ community we still have a long way to go. Just because a country brings into law equal rights for gay people, doesn't mean homophobia is eradicated. Gay people are still targeted, still abused, still murdered, and still struggle to be accepted for who they are as people and not singled out because of their sexual orientation.
While I'd love to see a Pride theme, I can understand why BVG doesn't want to take advantage of people's struggles for financial gain.
Happy Pride Month


You are right there. There are more than 10 countries where death penalty is given LEGALLY to anyone found out to be gay. People can google "gay" and "Sharia Law."
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Mir (102794171) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:47 pm

I'll apologize right off the bat if I'm repeating what some have already posted. I haven't read the entire thread.

I think it would be a great theme to offer. Sure, it might be a challenge to come up with ideas for the theme but there's a whole community of people here who can offer help and ideas for it BVG.

I'd love to see stuff like couple npcs of same sex together cuddling, holding hands. In some kind of way showing love for who they are.
Providing letters that we can spell out our love in that way.

Only a couple of ideas, but I'm sure a lot of people have more.

I believe, if something has been asked for this length of time, surely as a company, you could provide something to the effect. We all want to feel like we're accepted here regardless or race, religion and sex.
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Leeum (130695460) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:47 pm

Cali (114634836) wrote:
Leeum (130695460) wrote:
LUSTFUL NIGHTMARE (177682964) wrote:Imo if ur not lgbt+ then don’t speak on the issue :thumbsup:


:thumbsup:

I’m not trying to silence anyone, but ultimately if you are not LGBTQIA+ then you’re not going to fully understand our concerns/issues/wants — unless you’ve done a lot of research, which I doubt is the case for a lot of people.

I think BVG could benefit from maybe asking some openly LGBTQIA+ people on the forums what they believe would be the right thing to do.


Hi Leeum, :)

My first comment on this post was exactly the same that BVG should take a survey and ask the opinion of the LGBTQ+ community members about what should be included in a Pride Theme, But the feedback that I got was that my wording is "offensive" which was not my intention at all!
So I came back and apologized to Dexter... why? Because I didn't think a mere innocent suggestion could be interperted as offensive!

I think most non-LGBTQ+ players commenting here just trying to be helpful and add their voices to the cause and to encourage BVG to come up with a Pride theme, not the other way around!

Have a lovely day. :hug:


As a gay man, I haven't found it offensive whatsoever. I think asking the people you are going to be representing about what they actually want to see is incredibly important.

If a bunch of 'straight' people come up with Pride Items, we're going to end up with awful things such as this:
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Leeum (130695460) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:48 pm

Mir (102794171) wrote:I'll apologize right off the bat if I'm repeating what some have already posted. I haven't read the entire thread.

I think it would be a great theme to offer. Sure, it might be a challenge to come up with ideas for the theme but there's a whole community of people here who can offer help and ideas for it BVG.

I'd love to see stuff like couple npcs of same sex together cuddling, holding hands. In some kind of way showing love for who they are.
Providing letters that we can spell out our love in that way.


Only a couple of ideas, but I'm sure a lot of people have more.

I believe, if something has been asked for this length of time, surely as a company, you could provide something to the effect. We all want to feel like we're accepted here regardless or race, religion and sex.


I think even a simple free bundle of NPCs of the same sex interacting would be great. The NPCs don't need to be wearing pride shirts, or waving a pride flag, they just need to be regular old in-love NPCs.
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Amaya (139390344) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:52 pm

Viking Sam wrote:Hey YoFans!

So while I absolutely love the idea of a Pride theme, creating a theme based solely around Pride would be rather difficult for a few reasons:

  • First and foremost, we don't want to capitalize on the struggles, suffering, and erasure that the LGBTQ+ community has endured for years. This is why we offered the free pride item without a timer. We want to show our support but we don't want to take any money for that support.
  • It's hard to encapsulate everyone's view of Pride and how they celebrate into one theme. For some, it's rainbow flags and parades. For others, it's acceptance. It's wanting to feel like loving who you love isn't outside of the norm.

Please do feel free to keep the feedback and suggestions coming, but as per the forum ToS, I ask that this be a productive and inclusive conversation, and any abuse or intolerance will incur warnings and bans. We have a diverse player base that are ALL deserving of representation :heart:

If you truly want my feedback, this sounds like an easy way for y'all to not put your company at risk of angering bigots by doing a full pride theme. You give us a free item so hateful people can say "well they had to give them something to shut them up" "I guess they HAD to be inclusive for political reasons" etc. while at the same time making it seem like you support the community.
Just another reason to not spend real money here anymore. Ugh, now I remember why I avoid forums.
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Stardust (186190305) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:57 pm

Leeum (130695460) wrote:
Cali (114634836) wrote:
Leeum (130695460) wrote:
LUSTFUL NIGHTMARE (177682964) wrote:Imo if ur not lgbt+ then don’t speak on the issue :thumbsup:


:thumbsup:

I’m not trying to silence anyone, but ultimately if you are not LGBTQIA+ then you’re not going to fully understand our concerns/issues/wants — unless you’ve done a lot of research, which I doubt is the case for a lot of people.

I think BVG could benefit from maybe asking some openly LGBTQIA+ people on the forums what they believe would be the right thing to do.


Hi Leeum, :)

My first comment on this post was exactly the same that BVG should take a survey and ask the opinion of the LGBTQ+ community members about what should be included in a Pride Theme, But the feedback that I got was that my wording is "offensive" which was not my intention at all!
So I came back and apologized to Dexter... why? Because I didn't think a mere innocent suggestion could be interperted as offensive!

I think most non-LGBTQ+ players commenting here just trying to be helpful and add their voices to the cause and to encourage BVG to come up with a Pride theme, not the other way around!

Have a lovely day. :hug:


As a gay man, I haven't found it offensive whatsoever. I think asking the people you are going to be representing about what they actually want to see is incredibly important.

If a bunch of 'straight' people come up with Pride Items, we're going to end up with awful things such as this:
Image


The words on that tank-top does sound condescending. Whoever thought of those words certainly takes pride for being straight.
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It is easy enough to be friendly to one's friends. But to befriend the one who regards himself as your enemy is the quintessence of true religion. The other is mere business.

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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby RiveR SonG (179243943) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:59 pm

Stardust (186190305) wrote:
RiveR SonG (179243943) wrote:As far as I'm concerned Pride Month has nothing to do with wanting to 'stand out 'wanting to be seen as different 'wanting validation' or wanting to be treated better than anyone else.
It's about the continued efforts of the LGBTQ Community to raise awareness that as a society we haven't arrived yet, while things are changing thanks to the tireless efforts of the LGBTQ community we still have a long way to go. Just because a country brings into law equal rights for gay people, doesn't mean homophobia is eradicated. Gay people are still targeted, still abused, still murdered, and still struggle to be accepted for who they are as people and not singled out because of their sexual orientation.
While I'd love to see a Pride theme, I can understand why BVG doesn't want to take advantage of people's struggles for financial gain.
Happy Pride Month


You are right there. There are more than 10 countries where death penalty is given LEGALLY to anyone found out to be gay. People can google "gay" and "Sharia Law."

I worked in the Middle East for a number of years. It was a life-changing and eye-opening experience. I met some extraordinary people and some have remained lifelong friends.
I'm very familiar with Sharia law and saw firsthand the struggles of gay people there and their fear of being 'found out'
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Mir (102794171) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:59 pm

Leeum (130695460) wrote:
Mir (102794171) wrote:I'll apologize right off the bat if I'm repeating what some have already posted. I haven't read the entire thread.

I think it would be a great theme to offer. Sure, it might be a challenge to come up with ideas for the theme but there's a whole community of people here who can offer help and ideas for it BVG.

I'd love to see stuff like couple npcs of same sex together cuddling, holding hands. In some kind of way showing love for who they are.
Providing letters that we can spell out our love in that way.


Only a couple of ideas, but I'm sure a lot of people have more.

I believe, if something has been asked for this length of time, surely as a company, you could provide something to the effect. We all want to feel like we're accepted here regardless or race, religion and sex.


I think even a simple free bundle of NPCs of the same sex interacting would be great. The NPCs don't need to be wearing pride shirts, or waving a pride flag, they just need to be regular old in-love NPCs.



Yes, exactly. I just feel that when a person is denied to be who they are, real life, game, everywhere else, it's unfair.

And if we were really to get into the whole "not wanting to capatilize" then you could really say anything is being used to make money on. Black hair, green nail polish.....you get my drift.

People just want to feel like they belong. It's that simple.
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Mason (186280727) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:02 pm

I really don't understand why a pride theme is suddenly too complex a concept for some people, when we get Christmas and Easter themes every year, those being events with heavy religious connotations. You don't see people going 'Oh well, this isn't how I celebrate Christmas, so I'm not pleased with what this theme has to offer'. The player base accepts it? Because it's about the spirit of the day and not about what specific items are included.

Visibility. Representation. Getting people curious to educate themselves about gay rights movements throughout history. That is what Pride Month is for. I'm sure that many people just want a pride theme, regardless of what is in it.
So I took a breath, made a wish and blew it all away.
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Re: After Years of Asking...and THIS?!

Postby Stardust (186190305) » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:11 pm

RiveR SonG (179243943) wrote:
Stardust (186190305) wrote:
RiveR SonG (179243943) wrote:As far as I'm concerned Pride Month has nothing to do with wanting to 'stand out 'wanting to be seen as different 'wanting validation' or wanting to be treated better than anyone else.
It's about the continued efforts of the LGBTQ Community to raise awareness that as a society we haven't arrived yet, while things are changing thanks to the tireless efforts of the LGBTQ community we still have a long way to go. Just because a country brings into law equal rights for gay people, doesn't mean homophobia is eradicated. Gay people are still targeted, still abused, still murdered, and still struggle to be accepted for who they are as people and not singled out because of their sexual orientation.
While I'd love to see a Pride theme, I can understand why BVG doesn't want to take advantage of people's struggles for financial gain.
Happy Pride Month


You are right there. There are more than 10 countries where death penalty is given LEGALLY to anyone found out to be gay. People can google "gay" and "Sharia Law."

I worked in the Middle East for a number of years. It was a life-changing and eye-opening experience. I met some extraordinary people and some have remained lifelong friends.
I'm very familiar with Sharia law and saw firsthand the struggles of gay people there and their fear of being 'found out'


I wish I could have your experience! The only countries in the Middle East I have visited are just Qatar and Turkey, and that's only as a tourist. I believe there are truly great people in the Middle East just like in anywhere else around the globe, I hope people realize that. I feel so sorry for them, gay or not, who are trapped in the Sharia Law, and that includes women and children too. I hope it will get better over there, for the sake of humanity and human rights :sad:
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It is easy enough to be friendly to one's friends. But to befriend the one who regards himself as your enemy is the quintessence of true religion. The other is mere business.

M. Gandhi
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