Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanently?

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Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanently?

Postby Clarissa (155301965) » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:59 pm

what is the reason for retiring the Dirty Dancing Theme permanently, without arranging for future access? I have being making suggestions for YEARS about making the Vault available for everyone, like another store to shop from, all the time. Also, what about the Retired Theme" section that already exists through the YoDepot? Will the "Dirty Dancing Theme" be placed there, instead?

Other suggestions were: Fix the contest rooms where the arrows can be attached to them and then attached to the Yovillians other properties.

Have contest themes where the players can decorate the existing rooms on YoWorld such as the Coffee Shop, etc..

Create a past and present NPC store or NPCs that the players can create and use to decorate scenes.

Create another Car dealership with retro, present and future cars that can be used to decorate with.
Last edited by Clarissa (155301965) on Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Chris (4327680) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:03 am

We are guessing that since it was licensed, the contract is ending and they don’t have permission to keep any of it in game. I don’t think anything is staying, though I don’t understand why generic things like furniture and rugs have to go.
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby LisaTM (10095126) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:53 am

Chris (4327680) wrote:We are guessing that since it was licensed, the contract is ending and they don’t have permission to keep any of it in game. I don’t think anything is staying, though I don’t understand why generic things like furniture and rugs have to go.


I’m assuming because the generic things also have the code name/theme name. They’d probably have to change the code and theme name to avoid lawsuits, and they have so much else going on that they don’t want to or can’t spend time on that. Again, it’s just a guess. I don’t know how copyright infringement laws and contracts work.
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby RoseOWLS Chongha (119856842) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:45 am

so this topic has been brought up before why havent we heard from the vikings? thats what the forums are about to ask questions and get answers . I for one would like to know if it is licenced and if anything will be staying .
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Kio (185180932) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:27 am

It was a licensed theme trademarked to a one time release and I suspect it is expired because they will not be vaulting it and re-releasing it due to the contract license not extending the duration of another re/release. In other words they will not be cashing in on another round of this theme unlike vaulted themes that have a chance to come back later. Just my thought, could be wrong.
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Gooey (126579776) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:03 pm

Money?
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Mason (186280727) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:06 pm

I'm wondering what would happen if companies figure out these designers are using the concept material (that they couldn't afford the license for) and tweaking it just enough for it to pass as a unique rendition. :quiet:

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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Pinkylola (235554) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:26 pm

:dizzy:
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Chris (4327680) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:00 pm

RoseOWLS Chongha (119856842) wrote:so this topic has been brought up before why havent we heard from the vikings? thats what the forums are about to ask questions and get answers . I for one would like to know if it is licenced and if anything will be staying .

They don’t tell us that for non licensed themes either, so I never expected them to.
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Chris (4327680) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:04 pm

Mason (186280727) wrote:I'm wondering what would happen if companies figure out these designers are using the concept material (that they couldn't afford the license for) and tweaking it just enough for it to pass as a unique rendition. :quiet:

You remember the Pokemon yobers from PP2016?

You can send a cease and desist or sue over infringement for absolutely anything. Then the arguing stars over whether or not it truly is an infringement. At that point, BVG would (be smart to) just drop the usage because they will never recoup the financial amount the lawsuit would cost. There’s literally no point in fighting huge companies because they have enough money to pay lawyers to bury you in paperwork until you run out of money and are forced to drop the lawsuit.

All that said, most of the theme has nothing to do with the movie and could be saved if renamed. Only the things that are named after the movie would need to expire. I’m sure they built it into the contract that those couldn’t just be renamed. At that point, again, it cost BVG less to agree to just expire everything than start making and potentially arguing over lists.

People don’t win lawsuits because they’re in the right. They win lawsuits because they have more money and/or a better lawyer. SOMETIMES the side that’s in the right has those things. People with enough money to have choices still settle if that would be cheaper than a lawsuit.

(Husband is a paralegal and owns a company that records depositions and prepares and helps present multimedia (some of which I create) in the courtroom. I’ve been on both sides of copyright infringement cases, owning a graphic design agency for 20+ years.)
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Goddess Zane (2435988) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:25 pm

Mason (186280727) wrote:I'm wondering what would happen if companies figure out these designers are using the concept material (that they couldn't afford the license for) and tweaking it just enough for it to pass as a unique rendition. :quiet:

You remember the Pokemon yobers from PP2016?


That is a very common practice. Sometimes, it flies; sometimes, it doesn't.
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Mason (186280727) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:40 pm

Chris (4327680) wrote:
Mason (186280727) wrote:I'm wondering what would happen if companies figure out these designers are using the concept material (that they couldn't afford the license for) and tweaking it just enough for it to pass as a unique rendition. :quiet:

You remember the Pokemon yobers from PP2016?

You can send a cease and desist or sue over infringement for absolutely anything. Then the arguing stars over whether or not it truly is an infringement. At that point, BVG would (be smart to) just drop the usage because they will never recoup the financial amount the lawsuit would cost. There’s literally no point in fighting huge companies because they have enough money to pay lawyers to bury you in paperwork until you run out of money and are forced to drop the lawsuit.

All that said, most of the theme has nothing to do with the movie and could be saved if renamed. Only the things that are named after the movie would need to expire. I’m sure they built it into the contract that those couldn’t just be renamed. At that point, again, it cost BVG less to agree to just expire everything than start making and potentially arguing over lists.

People don’t win lawsuits because they’re in the right. They win lawsuits because they have more money and/or a better lawyer. SOMETIMES the side that’s in the right has those things. People with enough money to have choices still settle if that would be cheaper than a lawsuit.

(Husband is a paralegal and owns a company that records depositions and prepares and helps present multimedia (some of which I create) in the courtroom. I’ve been on both sides of copyright infringement cases, owning a graphic design agency for 20+ years.)


How very informative! Thanks for sharing your experience. What happens, then, to the Dirty Dancing items in people's ownership? Would that also not come under trademark usage? Is there a clause in place that allows for them? I'm curious if it is only for the store sale of said items that the contract is drawn up for, and if players have free reign over the trading of them.

Of course, BVG would have the answers to these questions but I think even if they did notice our interest in the topic, they wouldn't speak on it as a legal precaution.
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby JulieHootieScraps (108384802) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:58 pm

Mason (186280727) wrote:
Chris (4327680) wrote:
Mason (186280727) wrote:I'm wondering what would happen if companies figure out these designers are using the concept material (that they couldn't afford the license for) and tweaking it just enough for it to pass as a unique rendition. :quiet:

You remember the Pokemon yobers from PP2016?

You can send a cease and desist or sue over infringement for absolutely anything. Then the arguing stars over whether or not it truly is an infringement. At that point, BVG would (be smart to) just drop the usage because they will never recoup the financial amount the lawsuit would cost. There’s literally no point in fighting huge companies because they have enough money to pay lawyers to bury you in paperwork until you run out of money and are forced to drop the lawsuit.

All that said, most of the theme has nothing to do with the movie and could be saved if renamed. Only the things that are named after the movie would need to expire. I’m sure they built it into the contract that those couldn’t just be renamed. At that point, again, it cost BVG less to agree to just expire everything than start making and potentially arguing over lists.

People don’t win lawsuits because they’re in the right. They win lawsuits because they have more money and/or a better lawyer. SOMETIMES the side that’s in the right has those things. People with enough money to have choices still settle if that would be cheaper than a lawsuit.

(Husband is a paralegal and owns a company that records depositions and prepares and helps present multimedia (some of which I create) in the courtroom. I’ve been on both sides of copyright infringement cases, owning a graphic design agency for 20+ years.)


How very informative! Thanks for sharing your experience. What happens, then, to the Dirty Dancing items in people's ownership? Would that also not come under trademark usage? Is there a clause in place that allows for them? I'm curious if it is only for the store sale of said items that the contract is drawn up for, and if players have free reign over the trading of them.

Of course, BVG would have the answers to these questions but I think even if they did notice our interest in the topic, they wouldn't speak on it as a legal precaution.

Just like with the 50 Shades theme, once the company was no longer legally allowed to sell the theme items, they and the properties were all pulled from the stores. It would be nearly impossible to stop personal reselling of items. They have removed a few other items in game from being resold, but not at the volume of an entire theme.
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby LisaTM (10095126) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:46 pm

RoseOWLS Chongha (119856842) wrote:so this topic has been brought up before why havent we heard from the vikings? thats what the forums are about to ask questions and get answers . I for one would like to know if it is licenced and if anything will be staying .


I would love an answer from BVG, too about why. But, no, EVERY bit is going. Again, I don't understand copyright laws very well. My guess is that if it's a license issue, any and every item has to go because of the theme/code name. And if it's possible that if the license expired before they retired the theme and there was a lawsuit, they might not be permitted to tell us anything. This, too, is just speculation on my part. I can't and won't claim to have any answers, but if BVG doesn't give us an answer, I'm guessing it's either for legal reasons or for PR.
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Chris (4327680) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:15 pm

Mason (186280727) wrote:
Chris (4327680) wrote:
Mason (186280727) wrote:I'm wondering what would happen if companies figure out these designers are using the concept material (that they couldn't afford the license for) and tweaking it just enough for it to pass as a unique rendition. :quiet:

You remember the Pokemon yobers from PP2016?

You can send a cease and desist or sue over infringement for absolutely anything. Then the arguing stars over whether or not it truly is an infringement. At that point, BVG would (be smart to) just drop the usage because they will never recoup the financial amount the lawsuit would cost. There’s literally no point in fighting huge companies because they have enough money to pay lawyers to bury you in paperwork until you run out of money and are forced to drop the lawsuit.

All that said, most of the theme has nothing to do with the movie and could be saved if renamed. Only the things that are named after the movie would need to expire. I’m sure they built it into the contract that those couldn’t just be renamed. At that point, again, it cost BVG less to agree to just expire everything than start making and potentially arguing over lists.

People don’t win lawsuits because they’re in the right. They win lawsuits because they have more money and/or a better lawyer. SOMETIMES the side that’s in the right has those things. People with enough money to have choices still settle if that would be cheaper than a lawsuit.

(Husband is a paralegal and owns a company that records depositions and prepares and helps present multimedia (some of which I create) in the courtroom. I’ve been on both sides of copyright infringement cases, owning a graphic design agency for 20+ years.)


How very informative! Thanks for sharing your experience. What happens, then, to the Dirty Dancing items in people's ownership? Would that also not come under trademark usage? Is there a clause in place that allows for them? I'm curious if it is only for the store sale of said items that the contract is drawn up for, and if players have free reign over the trading of them.

Of course, BVG would have the answers to these questions but I think even if they did notice our interest in the topic, they wouldn't speak on it as a legal precaution.

These are all usage rights, not ownership rights. BVG was licensed certain usage rights for selling the items in stores and certain usage rights for the items to remain in game, probably as long as the game exists. They likely pay royalties based on that new paradigm. There may or may not be language stating that if YoWorld is sold and/or morphs into something else (YoUniverse) we can still use our purchases in game. There probably is, but let’s say that was a sticking point for the DD IP team, BVG could have signed off on all items being remove under certain circumstances. Doubtful, but just about anything’s possible if you put it in writing PROPERLY and it’s properly signed, notarized/filed, etc.

That’s something else players breaking TOS don’t know or don’t care about. BVG is under contract to only transfer rights under specific terms. Those terms don’t include players selling for cash. More than likely, BVG is under contract to do everything within reason to prevent that from happening. At any time, though, if Lion’s Gate sees activity that they think BVG isn’t taking reasonable action against, they can sue for breach, at which point BVG has several options, all of which hurt the honest players, too. They could PROPOSE to settle the suit by removing everything , but if LG declines those terms, they could wind up taking other avenues, up to and including closing the game or fighting the suit into bankruptcy. It’s VERY rare for things to get that far... a company like LG is much more interested in any continuing royalties than in being a jerk.

This is the kind of stuff I’m talking about when players are bashing BVG for not doing more. Unless you’ve worked it or similar, you have NO idea how much they’re also doing. Creating stuff for us is likely only about 10-20% Of what the staff does/has time to do. BVG is either paying in house council or an IP attorney on expensive retainer to handle all of this. Whoever owns Alice in Wonderland, Wizard of Oz, etc., could come out of the woodwork at any time. If they haven’t already. We have NO idea where BVGs reosurse go from day to day. Even BVG can’t fully plan/control that.
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby x JP x (152264913) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:27 pm

What's the point of vaulting if you want to make it available for everyone, all the time? Just leave it in the store...
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Willow (13350872) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:40 pm

x JP x (152264913) wrote:What's the point of vaulting if you want to make it available for everyone, all the time? Just leave it in the store...


I totally agree with this. Why even vault items..my only guess would be that they get more money that way. People rush to buy what's being vaulted and then when they unvault people rush to buy :haha: :haha: Just like those so called spark sales they knew what they were doing when they did those :haha: :haha:
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Chris (4327680) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:06 am

x JP x (152264913) wrote:What's the point of vaulting if you want to make it available for everyone, all the time? Just leave it in the store...

They don’t want it available all the time, though.
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby TrippyHippy (141752193) » Tue May 04, 2021 10:12 am

Dirty Dancing theme is still available in store. :eh:
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Re: Why Is The "Dirty Dancing" Theme Being Retired Permanent

Postby Viking Andrew » Tue May 04, 2021 10:57 am

Hey there,

Looks like there was a bit of a system error that led to the discount being removed but not the items. This has been fixed and the items are no longer in store.
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